…grrrr. I’ve been referred to as a ‘lady’ twice this week and once even as a ‘girl’ - at my age ffs! The guy who referred to me as a girl did it, I think, because he knew it’d piss me off - and he was right - and he won’t be doing that again.
Why do they do this? Why do they diminish us with their language? I’m not asking because I don’t know; I’m simply making an opportunity for us to share our grrrr’s about it and to see if there’s any way we can change things.
23 responses so far ↓
stormy // November 11, 2007 at 11:22 am
I’ve taken to calling some men (white only of course) “boy”. Especially when they refer to me as “girl” or “darlin”. Other than that, I have come close to smacking a dude calling me “darlin”. I ain’t his darlin’, nor any other man’s darlin’. I am an autonomous adult female. I am woman.
stormy // November 11, 2007 at 11:25 am
I think the correct response is probably along the lines of:
“Ewww, dude, are you some kind of creepy pedophile that can’t tell the difference between an adult female and a child? Seek help.”
Sarah (Ethically Speaking) // November 11, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Hehe, I’m still known for that on forums.
L.M. // November 11, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Also interesting to note how porn usually refers to “girls” not women.
CoolAunt // November 11, 2007 at 9:11 pm
“Lady” doesn’t really bother me, perhaps because I live in the southern US, where “lady” and “woman” have become synonymous and really have nothing to do with behaviors anymore.
Calling a woman “girl,” however, I’m not so okay with. A girl is a female child, which, of course, you know and is why you find it dminishing.
“Chick,” which isn’t used much anymore, bugs me the most. I don’t know why but it does.
Gayle // November 12, 2007 at 12:38 am
Yeah, it’s pretty easy to tell when someone uses the words lady or girl as insults. They usually say it with a smirk or write it when they’re debating you on a feminist blog. Oh, what a take down! *eye roll*
I’ve met a lot of men and women who use both terms without understanding the connotations. I tend to cut those people slack.
One odd phenomenon I’ve noticed lately is the tendency to use of the word “dude” to refer to both men and women. In my neck of the woods, both men and women use the term a lot. I was stunned the first time I heard a youngish man call a woman “dude.”
I’m growing more used to it now, but I’m still not sure what to make of it.
Gayle // November 12, 2007 at 12:45 am
CoolAunt,
Maybe “chick” bothers you so much because a chick is a tiny, helpless baby bird?
It used to bug me, too. It was very popular with some crowds when I was a kid and it always rubbed me the wrong way.
I can’t remember the last time I heard someone use it so that’s a good thing!
Sis // November 13, 2007 at 4:04 am
Yes, just about a week ago. I had asked a question about a product. He called someone out, “this girl over here wants to know…”. I said exasperatedly “I’m not a girl. That ends at about 12 I believe.” He looked genuinely shocked and stammered “Well, you’re still female.”
Hows that for you? Talk about a non sequitor.
I’ll leave lady alone, because it’s a tactic of mine to refer to louts in a soft voice as “gentlemen” as in “Would you gentlemen excuse me please?” when they’re coming toward me on the sidewalk six abreast.
secondwaver // November 13, 2007 at 4:17 am
Well, here in the northeast u.s., women don’t seem to be capable of uttering the word “women,” it’s always “you guys” or “ladies.” It really grates, every day.
When do you stop calling a young woman a girl? At about what age? Maybe 20? Younger?
simply wondered // November 13, 2007 at 7:06 pm
you are the witch… there is no more.
generally i try to refer to people as they prefer to self-define - just seems more polite.
you want to be called a lady a girl a chick - it’s all fine by me. your identity.
it’s nice that people on the internet get to pick their own names; nice if it extended elsewhere - i just love it when people call me simply, sw etc (or often simple)
simply wondered // November 13, 2007 at 7:07 pm
also think ‘ grrrl’ is a very special handle
Sarah (Ethically Speaking) // November 14, 2007 at 1:34 am
you are the witch… there is no more.
Applause and sound of hammer hitting nail on head.
Sis // November 14, 2007 at 8:09 am
To:
Simply Wondered Esq.
What’s yer point?
Sincerely
Hooves
simplywondered // November 14, 2007 at 11:11 am
hooves? any relation to pony? if so respect to ya.
not sure i have a point beyond the one that if someone wishes to be referred to as a woman then doing as she wishes seems a good start. if we can respect people’s right to self-identify it might be a sign we are starting to accept them as they are rather than as we wish them to be.
sorry for opacity - it’s a failing of mine.
and this ‘esq.’ oh yes! how important do i sound!!!
simply wondered // November 14, 2007 at 5:23 pm
triple hecate a nice moniker too.
unless you are called monica.
witchywoo // November 14, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Oh, Hecate would do for me
Laurelin // November 15, 2007 at 1:16 am
I suppose what it comes down to is not using words that are considered to be offensive, such as ‘lady’, ‘chick’, ‘grrrl’ etc., unless the addressee uses those terms herself, and gives you permission to call her by them.
Personally, I don’t like ‘chick’ as it dehumanises and suggests helplessness, ‘girl’/ ‘grrrl’ when addressing an adult woman because it seems demeaning, and ‘lady’ suggests a certain standard of acceptable ‘feminine’ behaviour. ‘Be more ladylike’ always gets my goat… if being a lady means I have to act in the way that misogynists think acceptable (and thus act less like me), I’ll pass thanks!
I’m rambling as usual. And I’m meant to be working….
simply wondered // November 15, 2007 at 12:48 pm
absolutely, laurelin
when women choose to call themselves grrrls it strikes me as a statement about taking ownership of a potentially belittling word, re-defining it and using it to express strength.
Sis // November 16, 2007 at 2:23 am
Oh silly me. I thought you were objecting to me calling you Simp over at Vi’s. I do carry the guilt thing around don’t I?
Sorry sorry sorry sorry.
Did you get th Stilton? Or was that someone else? No you were the one taking the slow boat to the wrong coast.
As Canadian coasts go, I’m closer to the Arctic than the others.
simplywondered // November 16, 2007 at 4:31 pm
‘Oh silly me. I thought you were objecting to me calling you Simp over at Vi’s. I do carry the guilt thing around don’t I?’
please don’t worry - all is fine! (but esq has a nice ring to it non?)
i was bringing the milk, flying to vancouver and walking to newfy… seemed like a god idea at the time. shan’t be long - i’m in somewhere called burnaby; can’t be much further to go. can there???
Mithel // November 16, 2007 at 11:03 pm
I dunno, whenever I hear ‘dude’ used non-ironically, I just scream, “Party on, Garth!”
Amy's Brain Today // November 20, 2007 at 9:36 pm
<>
Self-define schmelf-schmefine. The whole “I identify as” is nothing but “choice feminism” whipped up on with the pomo stick. It’s okay to call a 40-year-old woman a “girl” just because that’s what she calls herself? After 40 years of being bombarded with ageist heterosexist propaganda? Presumably, then, calling a woman “slut” or “ho” is just fine and dandy, as long as she’s okay with it! Continuing on down that slippery slope, why then do we bother objecting when men buy sex from our favorite sex-poz “sex worker”? Why, she’s begging for it! She even says so, right on the internet! When you think about it, it’s not even very far from there to “Well, Your Honor, she came over to my apartment after our date, so of course she wanted it!” Consent uber alles, don’t you know!!!
Stop the creeping pomo! Stop it! And news flash, SW–just because I use the word “dyke” doesn’t mean YOU get to.
K.A. // November 21, 2007 at 5:12 pm
For some reason, I actually get that kind of language more often from older WOMEN! Is it just me? “Sweetie, honey, hon, sweetheart, etc.”
I think some of them have the ingrained habit because their intent is to display disarming warmth to a stranger, but they don’t realize how gender-specific and belittling it is. On the other hand, many of the women who do it seem to have this subtle underlying hostility, like “my generation limited what would have been my natural personality, behavior, and life choices within the confines of precious little alloted rules of the era, and if I had to suffer all those years, by God, I’m going to take you down with me, you freeish-acting entity, you.” It’s this subconscious resentment.
The former grandma-type talk and the latter resentment due to feeling threatened by the idea that one’s life work of conformity was unnecessary are both due to internalized sexism, though one is more innocuous than the other.
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