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5 responses so far ↓
Yolanda Carrington // December 1, 2006 at 1:22 pm |
Thanks Witchy!
News is Good // December 2, 2006 at 12:55 am |
Hello, came to this blog from another I got to randomly (clicking on ‘recently updated’) and, being a man who finds porn unpleasant and believes himself to be a feminist, would like to have my argument gone over. I imagine that I will have to interject into conversations like this at many points in my life – are there any more points you can recommend me to make in such situations? Thanks in advance for the edification!
So, I’ve just fired off this comment (hopefully there is some semblance of an argument in there) regarding a webpost about how empowering it can be to lapdance and have rough porno sex:
http://renegadeevolution.blogspot.com/2006/11/empowering-stripping-sex-work-how-hell.html
“What is empowerment? Is it merely doing what you want? If you think that this might be the case, consider slavery. I wonder if slavery would ever be empowerment, even if the slave wanted it. Even if the slave was used to it and liked the sense of belonging and familiarity it gave. I imagine many slaves have existed throughout history who did not want to be set free.
Having considered whether empowerment is more than ‘doing what I want’, let’s consider this – “Like Amber, I do believe there is power in sexuality”. There is power in being able to choose and use your sexuality. But I would imagine that we would now agree that there is not power if that choice is taken away.
So, sexuality and choice is empowering. In what situations is sexuality not empowering, then? It follows that it is when you have no choice. Nudity that occurs when a woman has no choice is not empowering. Sex that occurs when a woman has no choice (rape) is not empowering.
When does this happen without overt abuse? It happens when a culture expects attractive women to show themselves off in a certain way, and will reward them for it, when they do not want it. There is pressure to do what they do not choose to do, which is not empowering. It is the opposite. It happens when a certain idea of sex (i.e. rough sex, or aggressive roleplay) is expected – and I am sure we can all think of certain sub-cultures where it is – and a person (male or female) is supposed to conform to that expectation. If they do not, disapproval and mocking are used.
To be part of reinforcing that norm may be empowering for people that choose it, but it is not empowering further down the line – when others see that norm, internalise it, and press that expecation on others who do not choose it, it is not empowering.
What is empowering is indeed a personal choice, to the extent that we make our own choices (but not quite to the extent, as above, that empowerment is ‘what I like’). However, when your empowering actions are also part of a dominating sub-culture, your actions will have an effect on the actions of others, that I would argue that could lead to disempowerment.
Choice is a type of power. Just because you are exercising your choices does not mean people have to respect you, for people are free to choose wrongly.”
witchywoo // December 2, 2006 at 1:20 am |
Thanks for the comment News
It’s a thoughtful comment you’ve made at RE’s –
I’ll be interested to read the responses.
With regard to your edification, may I suggest you take a trip down my blogroll? There are some wonderful bloggers listed there and many of them explore this issue at length. I’m certain you’ll find arguments and discussions that resonate with you and that you can expand on in your own thoughts when you read through their archives.
Get comfy though – it may take a while
stormcloud // December 2, 2006 at 12:02 pm |
I thought this bit from News was quite good:
“..when others see that norm, internalise it, and press that expectation on others who do not choose it, it is not empowering.”
Because that internalisation can be a form of unconscious survival skill. The internalised messages are so pervasive, that many aren’t even conscious of them. I think that Twisty recently made that point in “Sermon“.
I personally don’t like the *E* word, and never ever use it without good ol’ air quotes or *cyberstars*. The use of *empowerment* to describe actions/thoughts (particularly those that are in line with what the oppressors wish) is the exact opposite – it shows that the *empowered* ARE in fact, the powerless. One never hears of white middle class males seeking or acting in ways of *empowerment*. Nah, *empowerment* is just for brainwashed oppressed.
I personally seek knowledge and enlightenment, but NEVER *empowerment*.
Sorry if this has been a directionless ramble, the regulation amount of caffeine still hasn’t hit adequate levels in the bloodstream!
News is Good // December 2, 2006 at 2:16 pm |
Have continued the argument, if anyone is interested (and very sorry for hijacking this post, I’ll stop if there are any complaints!) on the URL posted above. Highlights from my recent argument:
” Is empowerment a purely personal issue, or is it something we should also see as a ‘feminist issue’, i.e. to do with all women at once? Someone who believe in it as a feminist issue will disagree with you, because you are taking it as a purely personal issue.”
“As long as you are empowered you are OK. If someone complains “you’re making me look bad, because compared to you men can say I’m not sexy enough, when I don’t want to be sexy in that way” you can say “well, I’m empowered”. That reply is entirely meaningless, as it pretends the other person does not exist, that there is no interaction between you and the other. The methods you are using to empower yourself reinforce a certain idea of what it is to be a woman – and what if a woman wants to deny that idea in favour of another one? It means that people who buy into your idea (of all genders) will see those women as defective in some way. I would hope that you can see that is not empowering.”
The problem here is that although you are saying “me”, “my choices”, “my desires” you are arguing from your you to a more universal conclusion. “I am empowered, so this is empowerment, and you cannot disagree” leeches in somewhere. You should be, according to your own logic, “I am empowered, this is my empowerment, but I see that other people may not accept this”. In the end, you have only discovered what you want. You have not discovered what is right (except for what is right for you). You have not discovered what is right for women. You have not discovered how all women could or should use sex as a ‘tool’ or strategy to become empowered with/against men. The very idea that sex is a tool of empowerment is exactly what many feminists wish to get rid of! Perhaps it is best if sex is a union between two people, and not a struggle? The sad fact is, historically, it has been a struggle that women have often felt they have lost.”
You are wrong in your last statement. I know where your power lies, too, it lies in considering yourself first and foremost. That is what you enjoy, and that is what you are doing – and that is why some people choose to disagree with you.”